Libertarian view

The abortion thing

Health care? No. Abortion? Yes.

LET’S TALK about abortion.

I’m a fence-straddler on this contentious topic. Not being a Christian, I have no religious issue with it. Like many people, abortion has been a part of my life.

My first wife got pregnant unexpectedly. It was before we married. We were young and shocked. Rather quickly she found an abortion doctor. This was before Roe versus Wade.

It was illegal.

I, however, was troubled and nixed it.

We married, and my life sailed in a direction it would have not sailed otherwise. I still feel the effects.

An unexpected pregnancy for young people is like a 10-ton boulder rolling down the mountain straight at you.

You can dodge it with an abortion. Or you can stand still, wide-eyed, and see what happens.

I support abortion rights when done early, and the fetus is just a nub. Where it gets troubling is when it’s done later and the fetus is a formed child.

Early, yes. Late, no. If you drag your feet making a decision, tough luck. Be decisive.

There’s lots of hubbub about Planned Parenthood, which is an abortion provider, and nothing more. Its supporters say it’s about women’s health. That’s baloney.

A reporter recently phoned Planned Parenthood facilities in various states to ask what prenatal services were provided. The answers were all the same. No prenatal services offered.

Planned Parenthood is an abortion mill, period. And given the strong emotions on the subject in many quarters, it should not be receiving taxpayer money.

Let the customers pay.

If you get pregnant unexpectedly, decide what you want to do with no dilly-dallying, and make an appointment with a doctor who provides the service. It’s legal.

Don’t wait five months and do it. It’s grisly.

Numerous undercover investigations have been done into Planned Parenthood, and what’s been discovered is quite disturbing. You’ll never see these reports in the socialist media like Huffpost, Mother Jones and The New York Times.

Abortion should stay legal for early stage. Illegal in the late stage.* To outlaw it altogether will just return us to the days of blood-soaked butchery in back alleys.

Outlawing all abortions is like outlawing drug use. It just creates worse problems. Use common sense.

* * * *

* Being an anti-government guy, I find even this troubling.

(Note: Later in my first marriage, we had another child, another accident. Ian Lee was born prematurely and with two club feet. He died three days later. After that, I got a vasectomy. I was 24 and out of the procreation game. My daughter recently turned 51 and lives in Athens, Georgia, with her husband. She is thick as thieves with her mother and has little to do with me. Irony.)

26 thoughts on “The abortion thing

  1. I totally agree with your views on this issue. Very well said. I too am a straddler, but there has to be a line drawn somewhere and the way you put it is exactly what I believe. On our way to Nashville after Six Days on the Road. We will meet our baby granddaughter tomorrow. She is 3 weeks old today. Take care, Felipe. Teresa

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  2. I’m probably the odd Christian. Abortion like prostitution and the abuse of ingestables have been with us since time immemorial. It is not going to go away. You can not legislate such things away. What to do? Pretty much what you have suggested. There is no need for Planned Parenthood in its present form (abortion mill). There are hospitals, day surgeries and OBGYNs galore to provide the medical care for such a procedure.

    I do not have any problems with a physician who refuses to perform the procedure because of their personal moral code. Just as I do not have a problem with a woman/couple choosing not to have the procedure done based on their personal moral code/s. Abortions are going to happen. You have to live with your decisions; I do not.

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  3. I have never had an abortion, but have friends that have and the majority have deep regrets and scars in their souls. There are no definitive answers to this except don’t get pregnant to begin with if you don’t want a child. I realize there are exceptions to this black-and-white attitude … just glad I don’t have to make that decision.

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    1. Peggy: It’s a very complex problem, especially if one is not a devout church person, which tends to simplify the issue for them. But not for the rest of us.

      As “for don’t get pregnant if you don’t want a child,” alas, horny young people usually don’t let logic enter the situation in the heat of the moment, so to speak.

      Most pregnancies the world over are accidents. Mother Nature made darn sure we would reproduce.

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  4. Planned Parenthood is definitely not an abortion mill. I served on on one of its local boards for several years, so I know what I’m talking about. Most of its clinics do not provide abortions, but all of them do provide reproductive health care, and for many, it’s the only resource around. Our Planned Parenthood clinic was very quick to discuss options which did not include pregnancy termination, and we referred those who were contemplating continuing the pregnancy with an eye toward adoption to the local right-to-life group.

    Services were provided on a sliding scale of payment, and the organization was more dependent upon donations than government funding. That said, let’s not throw out the baby with the bathwater. Planned Parenthood does provide much-needed services for its clientele — cancer screenings, STD tests, birth control, and even men’s health care services.

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    1. Ms. Shoes: When was that? The 1980s? No later than the 1990s, I’m sure. Times have changed. The ACLU actually used to defend the Constitution and free speech. There is plenty of evidence that Planned Parenthood has changed too.

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  5. I know about abortion from personal experience. What bothers me most is when men feel that that have a right to tell a woman what she can do with her body. A right to discuss, yes, for sure, but the final decision is up to the woman. Then whatever the decision is, then our job is to support that decision. We have counseling here in Canada, available to anyone who needs it. As far as clinics solely for abortion, I don’t know. But I know this, abortion stays with you forever and thoughts of what might have been never leave your mind, for either of you.

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  6. My concern about the procedure is more about what it does to the population. That portion of our nation with Negro ancestry is now about 12 percent. What will it be in the future if Planned Parenthood’s original goal is achieved? Five or 6 per cent?
    Sometimes things that look great right now turn out not so great in the long run. China’s one-child policy sounded great, but now they are facing a population with no brothers, no sisters, no uncles and aunts, no cousins.

    When the parents and grandparents are gone, the individual is all alone. Life without family is pretty bleak.

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    1. Señor Gill: Hear that knock on your door? It’s the squad of short-banged, purple-haired feminist lesbians I sent to thrash you good for using the word … negro!

      You allude to the founder of PP, Margaret Sanger, the proponent of eugenics, who believed that children of poor people especially should be aborted. That often was, er, blacks.

      One wonders how popular she would be today.

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  7. Japan, Europe, and the U.S. have a birth dearth of low fertility due to “the pill” and abortion on demand. High child-rearing costs are partially responsible for low fertility in wealthy countries.

    If we are to survive the ugly demographics of too few babies we need to encourage fertility and not abort our future as a nation. Pay all parents a monthly stipend for each new child and offer free childcare.

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      1. Gather ye rosebuds while ye may,
        Old Time is still a-flying;
        And this same flower that smiles today
        Tomorrow will be dying.

        The glorious lamp of heaven, the sun,
        The higher he’s a-getting,
        The sooner will his race be run,
        And nearer he’s to setting.

        That age is best which is the first,
        When youth and blood are warmer;
        But being spent, the worse, and worst
        Times still succeed the former.

        Then be not coy, but use your time,
        And while ye may, go marry;
        For having lost but once your prime,
        You may forever tarry.

        Robert Herrick, 1591 – 1674

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  8. Meanwhile, the sand jockeys squeeze out 6 or 8 kids, which in 3 to 4 generations will cause even more strife than presently for the Western World.

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  9. Don Felipe: Kudos for a posting filled with the kind of doubts and questioning that show you have given the issue serious thought, and for having the honesty to share personal information most folks would not discuss in a public forum. I’m glad too you’ve called a truce on your bomb-throwing at least for a day or two.

    I share some of your misgivings about abortion, though your distinctions about timing are silly, as any so-called pro-lifer would tell you. When exactly does a “nub” morph into something else?

    If I got a woman pregnant, which is extremely unlikely, I would have serious problems with the abortion option but in the end would accede to the woman’s decision. It’s her body that carries that baby and all things being equal she would have to bear most if not all the financial and emotional responsibility for raising the kid. If she opts for an abortion, she should have access to a legal, safe medical venue rather than a brand-x clinic that’s going to take advantage of her plight.

    What bothers me most about sanctimonious “pro-lifers” is their hypocrisy. Though their concern is ostensibly focus on the fetus, this is really a relentless campaign to impose their religious worldview on the country.

    That’s why when you explore pro-life rhetoric, even casually, you find it’s part of evangelical package that also opposes gay rights, religion-free public schools, sex education and even birth control (probably including vasectomies).

    Individuals should be free to deal with such personal issues as they see fit, according to their own lights and beliefs, without a nanny government going around with a Jeezus paddle slapping them on the ass.

    There’s a fundamental disconnect in a Republican ideology that talks about small government and individual rights while remaining obsessed with getting into people’s pajamas and telling them what to do with their plumbing.

    A rational approach, though not one absolute enough to satisfy pro-lifers and evangelicals, would first of all include sex education so horny youths don’t have to confront one-ton boulders rolling down their way. Abortions, with appropriate counseling and safe facilities would be part of the program for those who so choose.

    For women who opt to keep the baby, and perhaps have to do so without the aid of the guy who got them knocked up, there should be ample support services, including pre- and neonatal assistance and adoption for those who want to go that way. Pro-lifers tend to preach against abortion but then tell the new mothers to have a nice life, bless you and all that crap.

    From what I’ve read, abstinence programs promote ignorance and more unwanted babies.

    Your shot at Planned Parenthood is cheap, gratuitous and bullshit. Shame on you, Don Felipe. They do provide general health care for women beside abortions. No shame in contradicting Republican orthodoxy on this subject. You’re safe here in Mexico.

    Meanwhile stay away from those Molotov cocktails in your garage, OK?

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    1. Ah, Señor Lanier, correct on some things, off-base on others.

      So I should have let my first wife (well, wife-to-be at that moment) get the abortion she was going to get, and kept my nose out of it. Perhaps you should speak to my daughter and see how she feels about that.

      As for writing personal stuff online that many, perhaps most, would not do, I’m a let-it-all-hang-out kind of guy and have been for a long time. Ask me anything. I’m an open book.

      Bomb-throwing? I don’t throw bombs. I do write polemics at times. People who have contrary opinions prefer to call them rants, but a look into the dictionary will show I do not rant. I have addressed this issue before. See this from five years ago:

      https://goo.gl/V8LwVZ

      As for my fetus distinctions being silly (You used one of my favorite words!), they’re only silly to a church person on one end and, ironically, to a lefty on the other. Since I am neither, I think the distinction is very good and necessary. A nub is a nub. It’s ain’t a baby. Six months further on, however, those ultrasound pictures make it pretty obvious that it is a baby, or almost. Slicing and dicing and sucking it out is just plain yucky. I don’t like yucky. It makes me cringe. (Planned Parenthood does this sort of thing.) For that reason, if you’re gonna get an abortion, make up your mind quickly, and nip the nub. Nothing grisly about it. Kind of like cutting off a big mole.

      You say that a woman who finds herself in a bind should have “access to a legal, safe medical venue rather than a brand-x clinic that’s going to take advantage of her plight.” Couldn’t agree with you more. And that medical venue should be in the private sector, not funded by taxpayers, many of whom cringe at the thought of funding such a horror (in their minds). I don’t quite see what you’re getting at with the “brand-x clinic,” which should also be in the private sector. Capitalism is good. People can have various options available. As for the abortion, it should be paid for with insurance or, lacking that, from the patient’s pocketbook. This is not a taxpayer responsibility.

      As for pro-lifers wanting to impose their worldview on the entire community, well, yes again. That’s what happens when you think God’s Word is passing through your mouth. At least the extremist Christians (and it’s mostly the extremists we’re talking about) who feel this way are not, unlike Mohammedans, chopping off the heads of people who have contrary religious views.

      Firmly held religious views are part of humanity. Nothing will ever change that, and it must be dealt with.

      And it’s only the extremist minority who push the things you mention like no gay rights, religious schools, no birth control (just Catholics), no sex education. Most Christians are pretty sane.

      Individuals should be free to deal with such personal issues as they see fit, according to their own lights and beliefs, without a nanny government going around with a Jeezus paddle slapping them on the ass.

      There’s not a word I would change in that paragraph of yours except the word Jeezus, which I would omit. The rest of the paragraph is basic conservatism. Nobody opposes the nanny state like we conservatives do. It’s the leftists who embrace the nanny state. See California. See New York City.

      You think sex education (which I’m okay with as long as it does not start in elementary school and does not involve bananas) is going to keep the pants on randy teens so they won’t later confront that boulder bouncing down toward them? A good percentage will still get crushed by that boulder because young people think peril does not apply to them. That won’t change either.

      On to … should unwed mamas who opt to keep their babies have access to ample support services, etc.? Well, sure. In the private sector using their insurance or their purses. But government services can be included too. Public and private options like in Mexico.

      Yeah, abstinence programs are naive and silly. (There! I took my word back.)

      As for PP providing general healthcare for women aside from abortions, well, prenatal care is not provided. Maybe they once did, but as I noted, a recent investigation by a reporter who phoned PP in various states to ask about prenatal care revealed that prenatal care is not offered. That’s right from the horse’s mouth. We don’t offer prenatal care. I do imagine they hand out condoms, etc.

      I went to the Planned Parenthood main website.

      https://goo.gl/CQ49uh

      I see nothing that to me sounds like prenatal care. I see birth control (condoms!), body image(!), anemia testing, cholesterol testing, physical exams (“including for employment and sports”! I am not making this up.), flu vaccines, help with quitting smoking, tetanus vaccines, etc. It’s all general medical stuff that you can get elsewhere.

      As for my post being “bullshit,” if you had followed along here for a longer spell you would know I don’t take well to obscenities aimed at other commenters or to me. I’ll give you a pass, however. This time.

      I’ve enjoyed our exchange.

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  10. I take exception to the abuse of the term “Republican.” We as a party are an all-inclusive organization. Some of us are religious, and some of us are not. Some are straight and some are gay; most of us don’t give a dooly about how or what others do in their personal lives.
    We come from all races and religions. We believe we all have the right to our own beliefs and creeds.
    We, unlike other parties, do not have to follow a party line. We are all entitled to our own opinions, and we have the right to express those opinions. The essence of conservatism is that everyone gets to make up their own minds on issues.

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    1. Well stated, Señor Gill. There is far more freedom and tolerance in the GOP these days than you’ll find in the Democrat Party. Republicans do not shout down contrary opinions on university campuses. Republicans do not riot in the streets. We do not burn cars. We do not spit epithets at people we disagree with. We simply are nicer folks. Are there some extremists among us? Well, sure. Are there extremists in the Democrat Party? Whoo-boy.

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  11. I could go on at length on this, but my battery is low and we’ve been incommunicado for a week. I agree with your common-sense views on this sometimes difficult issue. I was given up for adoption at birth so I can’t be anything but anti-abortion. I am grateful to my birth mother for carrying me to term to give me a chance at life. I realize it’s not always an option for some women who don’t have the support like my birth mother did. I’m okay with first-term abortions. Since there are so many couples who can’t have children and want to adopt it would be nice if there was more of an option for pregnant women to be supported during their pregnancy so they could provide adoptions for these couples rather than leaving the only option as adopting African babies. Just my two cents.

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    1. Hi, Brent. You bring up one important aspect. I’ve read that there often is quite a wait in the United States to adopt a baby. Does seem sort of odd to be aborting them on one end while there are people waiting in line for one on the other end. In any event, I’m glad you got adopted. Felicitaciones.

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